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 Post subject: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:41 pm
Posts: 2
just a suggestion. when long time on24 players rely on admin to control hacker's, and multiple long time player's are complaining about it, They maybe should look at the red and blue aim-point line's that the suspected hacker's have available for their use showing where all player's are located, before they tell those relying on they're position that there's no evidence and everybody must have just agreed on a mistruth. when four or more player's that have played on24 for multiple year's agree that someone is hacking thru spectating and cant get hold of anybody and end up quitting because of cheaters .you might wanna put a lil trust in your FREINDS. we're not all liar's or young kids with wild imagination's . I really enjoy playing on this server and have for a long time but it's no fun playing with cheater's and late nite inter. server has had THEM {multiple} nightly lately. or maybe I have to record someone to get anyone to believe me... ? **** Would that be considered evidence? not trying to be a whiner, just trying to play n have fun. just a suggestion from a 49yr old kid.


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 Post subject: Re: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Littleton, CO
warpig wrote:
just a suggestion. when long time on24 players rely on admin to control hacker's, and multiple long time player's are complaining about it, They maybe should look at the red and blue aim-point line's that the suspected hacker's have available for their use showing where all player's are located, before they tell those relying on they're position that there's no evidence and everybody must have just agreed on a mistruth. when four or more player's that have played on24 for multiple year's agree that someone is hacking thru spectating and cant get hold of anybody and end up quitting because of cheaters .you might wanna put a lil trust in your FREINDS. we're not all liar's or young kids with wild imagination's . I really enjoy playing on this server and have for a long time but it's no fun playing with cheater's and late nite inter. server has had THEM {multiple} nightly lately. or maybe I have to record someone to get anyone to believe me... ? **** Would that be considered evidence? not trying to be a whiner, just trying to play n have fun. just a suggestion from a 49yr old kid.


I appreciate your position, War, and I try to be very accepting of other people's opinions and give them the benefit of the doubt. The fact of the matter is that we ban hackers if we're sure they hack, and we unban them if they're not. There is actually an entire forum for those who are banned to use in order to appeal their bans. I wasn't hesitating in an effort to insult you or anyone else. I was simply observing and demoing to try to get hard proof in case fizz chose to appeal, which he probably will.

If we trusted our regulars' opinions of every other player, we would have very few regulars. In fact, Digital, funshine, and many others would be banned simply because multiple people with plenty of playing time think they hack. I consider you a friend and I really don't want to offend you, but frankly I cannot ban someone just based on your opinion, no matter how many people support it. That's just not how things are done in this clan. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient or frustrating. Believe me, I wasn't super stoked about dropping what I was doing to come and sit in spec and watch someone play. I'm a college student taking 17 credits, I have a project due in 20 hours that I have barely looked at, I just got done reading Orwell's "1984" in less than a day, I have finals in two weeks, and I'm battling serious depression issues. What I wanted to do was to relax for a few hours before my three-day "weekend" of homework and tests begins. Instead I got called in to do my job, then criticized and verbally abused for how I was doing it.

The bottom line is this: I do respect you, I value your opinion, but I was doing my job the way I think I should do it. If you want hackers gone more quickly, please apply for admin in our clan and stay active. You'll have three stars in a matter of months and then you'll be able to ban whoever you want, whenever you want, for whatever reason. We'd love to have you. In the meantime, please don't take my conservative approach to administration as a commentary on my opinion of your experience or knowledge.

Also the blue and red lines are available to spectators (apparently), not necessarily to the player. I could have seen them if I was spectating you while you played, but you wouldn't have been able to see them. It's a plugin called ESP.

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 Post subject: Re: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:03 pm
Posts: 1086
Location: Maumee, OH
The esp (red and blue lines accessible upon death) is an asset in determining hackers but it doesn't take into account sound and common sense. So just because someone looks where the line is pointing..doesn't mean they didn't know they were there through other means. But as said above..the red and blues are only available when spectating someone through death or in spectate.

Just as caulk said..if we banned everyone based upon a friends suggestion without proof. A lot of our admins would have been banned as well as majority of our regulars. I was also messaged by a regular in which he said someone was suspected of hacking and also stating that it was hard to tell if they were. Also as an example, tekniqz, blu, twofive, jamminjay, funshine, nikko, etc. all these people and many more would be banned. Based upon accusation and no proof.

We as admins have rules that we have to follow. We have to post a demo for admins to review to make sure a ban was legit. We also have to post the ban in the banland section on our forums. If the individual appeals it and we don't have a demo. That person is unbanned on the spot. Then we STILL have to go back and get a demo. ALSO, we're not around 24/7..anyone is capable of demoing..and anyone is capable of getting it to an admin.

This is a system implemented to stop those that would abuse the power to ban from doing so.

The part that gets me..is you attacked an admin for following policy in the server and assisting you. If he didn't believe you and trust your judgement, he could have ignored you as if you were the boy who cried wolf. I know personally...I was raised you treat people how you want to be treated. Caulk was nicer to you in tells than I would have been. Some admins keep track of communication between players and them selves as proof. I think you were VASTLY inappropriate for someone trying to help.


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 Post subject: Re: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:23 pm 
I'd like to add a gentle reminder here.

We are VOLUNTEERS - we take time out of our days and nights to be here. We don't get paid. So yes, there are going to be times when an admin isn't going to be there.

As far as the hackers go, you need to accept that it's going to continue to get worse. VAC is a joke and has been for years, and Valve could care less about people tearing up a 15 year old game with hacks.

As Jen said, every single person here can record a demo, get the players Steam ID, and post it on these forums. Being as you have been playing for so long, that shouldn't be difficult for you. You can also add more admins to your Friends list to increase your chances of getting ahold of someone in an emergency.

In the meantime, please respect the fact that we have to do things a certain way here, and we are going to continue using that format regardless of how many people are screaming at us to ban a hacker. Especially one who wasn't one. So if an admin is in the server and says they are working on it, then that's what they are doing. All the constant admin chats and screaming in game chat are doing, is making our job that much harder. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:41 pm
Posts: 2
gee thanks ,yes I know what esp is and that's what I was talking about using to watch ,others shoot without sight or sound and kill people across the map, thru walls, etc. not meaning spam. "Apparently, I wrote that wrong "sarcasm screwed up. I use to have two server's called jack clan and FYC for several year's I was just trying to help out, since you were on my friends list as are most of the admins including Mouse. And you were online and told me to call if there was any trouble, but for the second time I've been treated like I was either stupid or knew nothing about the game. I understand that you do this for free rockjock (duh) i'm not stupid and have been playing here probably longer than yourself so thank you for what you do as an admin but don't invite me to call then not answer the phone. And don't KICK ME and call Me a Faggot when you have your name disguised because your apparently a lil short on courage. believe me I'm far from being a faggot and, am man enough to not hide and call other's name's ,and abuse my admin power's because you kept getting shot in the face. oh and so I still wont be a newb , this is my new steam id and accnt. use to love to play here and it's always been a great server, Just sucks to watch not do so good. and all I asked to begin with was for indk. to spec a couple people,i was referring to a remark he made to me about evidence and he understands. he can spec them himself like I was asking which is what I asked and why messaged him . thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:48 pm
Posts: 205
Location: Las Vegas
I do not know you and I have no idea of the history you have with the clan and/or the admins here.

But I know this, respect is a two way street and if you really think you were disrespected, then by all means post.
But, attacking and name calling in a post only shows a lack of self-respect, which is the most important thing you will ever have.
I will not say who is right or who is wrong, but lets use restraint and deal with each other as adults using courtesy and respect, never allow others to dictate your response to anyone or anything, be the adult in the situation.
Now the admins here are always quick to defend each other and the clan, that should be clear before you ever post, knowing that to be true, you should always have something to backup your complaint besides anger and a less than respectful attack on the admin and the clan/servers as a whole.

I would ask you to please backup a bit and think this thru, did the admin really do anything wrong? Or did he just not do what you thought should be done.
I can only speak for myself, but I have refused to ban even when requested by my own clan mates (*star admins) who cannot ban yet. I will never ban without clear evidence and since I am the worst at spotting a hack, I would not have done the ban you requested and I believe you to be a very well versed player.
I would have asked you to record and post with my support to have it looked at.

The whole point of this long winded response is just to say:

Stop complaining, join on24 and help keep the servers hacker free or just drop it.

I support the servers and would ask you to do the same. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Evidence
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:05 pm
Posts: 517
War, I love ya dude, but you gotta relax!

Every single time someone posts a ban it gets a demo (unless youre a noob like me, I dont do it often, unless there's a chance I could be wrong, which again, I usually get 4th 5th and 6th opinions before a ban). Admins went in to help you. They didn't see anything significant.

Period.

If YOU do, post it up, and we'll take care of it!

I agree, it does suck that the servers are attracting a lot of hackers due to the non steamers. At the same time, all of last night, we had 5 or 6 people in there, non steamers mind you, who were laughing, having a good time, joking around, and asking how to apply for admin. With how dead 1.6 is, I think the boosts help a ton more than hurt.

In the 5 hours I played last night, I banned noone, not a single hacker. Take a glance at banland subforum. Look how many bans we do, sometimes even at one time! We do our best. And we like you as a reg. I know caulk pretty well, and aside from his amazing writing abilities, talking to him on a more personal level, hes a good dude, and definitely one to not 'talk trash' in more than a joking sense. You'd be more likely for me to spout off. lol.

Take a day off, or 2, come back, and play. No one is going to be holding a grudge, and we'll continue to admin/play on with you.

Lastly, as admins we are held to a higher 'standard of care'. As lost said, respect is a 2 way street. Admins should not be name calling, nor should regs. We're almost all adults. Act accordingly or feel the wrath of my keyboard :o


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